A Blog by Bajingobomb, Horde US-Malfurion

Mages Failing at Mage #3 – Arcane/Frost Raiding Spec

At least this kid knows he sucks, unfortunately he thinks its because he doesn’t know how to gem/enchant and not because his spec is horrible for raiding.  But hey, to each his own right?  So what if you wanna roll into raids doing good dps once every 3 minutes?  That’s good enough, right?

Favorite quote -

OP: Frost is my pvp spec, arcane frost is my dps spec

Next Response: ….why?

You also have to love the brainiac giving the guy advice as to what a better raid spec would be:

Try that. Arcane explosion is god mode AoE nowadays. I’ve pulled some points around in frost to give you /3 elemental precision to get your cap right. Removed frostbite for Frost Channelling as 15% less mana usage and threat is gooooood.
4/5 winters chill is plenty, you can span icelance to get it up there and then go nuts on frostbolts. not like its ever going to fall off, it doesnt have charges like ISB does.
Arcane missiles are a joke. Arcane subtlety is ftw. Eventually you’ll start playing with arcane blast and loving it. its just heavy on the mana usage so ya gotta work out what your regen is like.

I would link the spec, but the retard posted a link to a blank talent tree.

Everybody jump aboard the failboat!

13 responses

  1. Irenicus

    Arc frost does not suck at raiding. You just have to know what you are doing and have the proper gearing and support. that mage will do terribly with it as he has almost no spirit, his damage is obscenely low, and as an ARCANE build no less, and he likely does not use the proper raid buffs either.

    For many fights arc frost is competitive and can even beat similarly geared fire mages, assuming raid dps is high as well, if not then things get worse.

    Here is my own mage with more reasonable gearing for arc frost.

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Tichondrius&n=Iren%C3%ADcus

    On long drawn stand and nuke fights it is less tenable to deep fire, ala brutallus, so sunwell and beyond by all means deep fire is likely superior, but for the other stuff it is more than fine and will be perfectly competent through t6 content.

    July 9, 2008 at 10:13 pm

  2. dillon

    lol. umm. arcane frost is rediculous dps. theres a rotation that is for maximum dps. 3 arcane blasts then frostbolt fireblast. rinse and repeat. im arcane right now cuz my hit rating is 141 and its hard tog et it capped. but were in ssc. and on lurker. there was a mage in our group that did 1200 dps. he said he just has a macro that does that for him. (cast sequence macros.) i did 1004 dps. first time over 1k dps. i was perty happy :). and im arc frost. and i love it. :)

    July 15, 2008 at 7:45 am

  3. El Moron

    Of all the places on the internet to comment on Arc/Frost viability? You chose Elphaba’s blog to do it in?

    I also like the jaw dropping 1004dps on Lurker comment lolz. Although it is nice to see the arc/frost fanboys admitting defeat once they actually get to Sunwell. Hell Failangel himself finally submitted to an elemental build because his dumbass spec was holding his guild back.

    Not that mages are taken to SW anyway so I suppose you could spec for imp wands and be a hero of the mage class these days.

    July 15, 2008 at 6:12 pm

  4. Link

    Arcane/Frost is one of the Highest Damage output mage classes out there IF you know what you’re doing. My mage is currently arc/frost and I can out-dps any fire mage I come across even in t6 when i have no pieces myself. On a typical raid through SSC up to BT I can average 1200-1350 DPS and can top the AOE charts everytime we go into Hyjal. With full frost your focus is gonna be pure frost dmg and haste but with arc/frost you want to focus more on pure damage (not just frost) and spell crit. With the build you can be hit capped down to 126 spell hit or if you have a draenei caster in your group with the Inspiring pressence buff of 1% chance to hit you can take away 1% hit which is 16 points so you can have your hit down to 110 and still be capped. With full frost you need to keep your hit up at around 164 to still be hit capped so you lose out on alot of damage and crit gems which could be helping ur dps. With no spell hit gems I have my hit around 144 right now with just my gear stats and can’t get it any lower. When I pop all my trinkets in raid and all my power spells I can crit up to 7.8k frostbolts and when i’m not popped up on my buffs I average crits of around 4.6k and non crits around 2.3k every 2.45 seconds. So you tell me that Arcane/Frost sucks and I’ll believe you when you can have the same gear and smoke me in a raid….Goodluck
    -Link
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Duskwood&n=Linkourne

    July 17, 2008 at 7:56 am

  5. Healius

    YOu guys are all bad. Bad. Bad. Bad.

    Arcane is the highest dps for burst. But its completely worthless in longer fights.

    “proper gearing and support”

    Support == Dedicating an Innervate to a raid member who could be replaced by a fire mage or even better a warlock that would do the same or better damage. Yea solid idea there.

    “7.8k frostbolts”

    Big numbers equals raid viability. Yea ok. When you’re wanding (prob grab imp wands) the Fire mage is still throwing Fireballs. We’ll pull you into a Brutalus or a M’uru fight and see how well you do.

    Its been proven time and again by numerous calculators… if you want to be raid viable w/o being the GM’s girlfriend so you get enough “support” you should be fire. If you wanna play one handed while jerking off to the few big numbers you can toss up… go arcane.

    July 17, 2008 at 2:57 pm

  6. Link

    Run out of mana? haha apparnatly you know nothing about a proper raid setup! Our fire mages run out of mana before any other mage AND thats with a shadow priest AND a shaman in the group with their totems down…So you tell me. They have the 101 spell damage increase, shadow priest’s mana regen and a 29 mana per 2 seconds from a resto shammy’s totem and they still run oom before me without me being in that group? I am not the GM’s girlfriend, I don’t pull any favors, I never ask for innervates…those are saved for healers. With proper use of mana emeralds (with serpent coil braid) and mana pots (with sorcerer’s alchemst stone for healing intensive fights for improved health/mana pots) I have run oom in only one boss fight ever and that was Kaz’rogal where he drains your mana and that was only due to our main tank dieing and we had to stop DPS and wait through the Mark’s till our next tank got up there in threat thus wasting much of our mana.
    Yes Arcane/Frost is more of a burst spec and thats why i said in my previous post that you should put more emphasis on crit instead of haste. Although in most fights with proper use of your mana emerald 2-3 times and a properly placed evocation you should never run out of mana. Not to mention you get 30% of your mana regen while casting from the arcane tree plus you get 15% more intellect overall from Arcane Mind. So you tell me, Fire mages have their fireballs costing 425 mana (on average) and take 3.5 seconds to cast. My frostbolt costs me 272 mana and takes me 2.5 seconds to cast. Not to mention while raid buffed I sit at around 12.3k mana so running out doesn’t happen so I never end up”wanding.” Also if you payed ANY attention to the link to my armory you would have looked up that I don’t have improved wands so that shows how much effort you put in to backing up your argument.

    July 17, 2008 at 10:06 pm

  7. Mehsoblitzed

    I’m arc/frost 40/21. Fully raid buffed right now I start out with 13.6k mana. Raid dps hovers around 1200. Do I run out of mana fast? Only on short fights with godlike tanks where I can really open up. Do I ever get that? Not really. With managems, mana oil, mage armor, AI, evocate and mana pots, and all the other raid buffs an arc/frost mage should never run out of mana unless he just wants to show off.

    Am I saying arc/frost is better than fire? Nope. No idea. Haven’t been fire since I was levelling and haven’t raided with a similarly geared mage to compare.

    July 18, 2008 at 11:58 am

  8. Black Temple and Sunwell Mages should not be having any mana issues if you have a SPriest in your group. If you are Arc/Frost spec and you are having mana issues, then you need to tweak your spell rotation a bit, and throw a bit more FrB and a bit less AB.

    Arc/Frost works in raids, you just gotta work hard and find your “best” spell rotation that doesn’t leave you oom, or with too much mana left at the end of the fight.

    I am Deep Frost spec, and I’m doing 2100+ dps on Brutallus. With a Spriest, I’m at < 3% mana when Brutallus dies, and that is with using Evocation. I’m popping Destro pots x 3, while the Fire Mages usually go with Mana pot x 2, Destro pot x 1.

    July 18, 2008 at 7:13 pm

  9. Sinex

    Arcane pass Imp Counter should be gotten rid of, Frost should only be useable in arena/pvp, bring that shit into raiding and you should be gkicked for being a fucking retard.

    July 19, 2008 at 7:29 am

  10. bobyboucher

    Sigh got to love the one way mind set some have!

    Arcane frost is viable up to T6 if they have a dedicated deep frost mage to leech winters chill off of. There numbers may be lower in a long lasting fight where molten furey and ignite will shine but really how many fights are really that long in MH and BT?

    Ok sure if your talking First brutalus atempts they mages should go for the one speck that will give them the best long lasting bang for there buck and go fire, but if you have a proper set up in T6 content and lower arc/frost will toss up some nice dmg. What many seem to be forgetting was the tweak to int/spirit on mana regen and the talents you pick up in arcane the increase both int and mana regen.

    This being said a arc/frost mage using managems evocation properly and using mage armor if needs be should not be runing OOM unless they get lazy/dumb and sit there spaming AB x20 to try and clear there mana bar! If there tossing in abx3 fb fire blast rotations they should manage to toss up good numbers and keep there mana pool drain at a minimum. As well if they got a deep frost to leech off of let the FB spam commence and let that 150% crit bonus dmg shine :)

    July 22, 2008 at 2:59 pm

  11. Yahpp

    I do have to say I find it interesting. I am in a guild thats definitely abnormal. i.e. 5/6 ssc, 3/4 tk, but for some reason only 1/5 hj and 4/5 bt…and I am 40/0/21 specced. I dont have the 2p T5 set yet so my primary nuker is Arcane Power+frostbolt. Im gearing more towards haste than crit or anything because at least with haste I can rely on it, rather than hoping for big crits. And im usually maintaining about 1200+ dps a night raiding.

    I am curious…is there a point to keeping up the AB until low on mana then FBing or….ABx3 FB2 repeat? ive been messing with both and they seem fine…still fun to see 42k crits on curator and even 12k crits on bog lords in SSC.

    September 23, 2008 at 7:30 pm

  12. dimension

    sorry to tell u link but a fire mage with t6 did less than 1200-1300 dmg is simply the demonstration of failture,stupidity and lack of skills.I’we saw plenty of mages with t6 on my server(dentarg) who do less than 1300 dps and they are still in good guilds…why is that?because mage simply sucks and u are in that raid only for food,buffs and cc nothing more,nothing less.Why take a mage when u can take a lock that does incredibly more dmg than you?I am a mage myself since wow started…the mage class got robbed,left like in pre-tbc while other classes got buffed.Pure dps class like a mage unable to do more dmg than a hunter?for chirst sake…somone told me that when the mage gets the 4xt6 it gets the best dps class in the game…i lived with that thought till i got not 4 parts i got 6 and guess what still can’t beat a lock.I’we lived haunted by the words ”locks do more dmg,get used to it” for so much time.So my point is…don’t strugle to get new specs out,convince each other what spec is the best for dps,cuz belive me nothing helps you.My opp is to play what ever spec it suits you.also from my pov,frost is useless in pve,arcane is good till one point(meaning bt and up content) and fire is the best spec u can get for max dps…40/28 is the best for swp.hope i answered alot of u’re questions…

    October 3, 2008 at 2:05 am

  13. Zalbo

    A lot of fail comments here.
    3.0 has hit so this doesn’t matter anymore, BUT:
    Once you get 2 piece t5 arcane becomes a better spec than fire until late t6. Theorycraft will tell you this. I did it, around 4/9 BT and 4/5 Hyjal I was pulling 1800+ on gorefiend, by the time we got to council over 2k. Around that point fire scaling makes it catch up, although its only in sunwell it starts to pull away, as haste is doesn’t scale arcane very well (in fact your frostbolts become better faster than your arcane blast). My best brut was 2300, if 3.0 didn’t hit i would have done around 2400 with upgrades I had.

    In 3.0 arcane is pretty rubbish, as AB spam is now its lowest dps at twice the old mana cost. Luckily everyones dps is so high now that you could spec 20/20/21 and still be fine, at least until wotlk

    October 16, 2008 at 1:39 am

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